如果意大利军在二战期间表现出色会怎样？


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What if the Italian Army was Good in World War 2?

如果意大利军在二战期间表现出色会怎样？

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HAL 9000
How do you stop an Italian tank? Shoot thepeople pushing it.

你如何阻止意大利的坦克？
朝推它的人开枪。

Legio XXI Rapax
Said by an Americans that have lost thewars vs Canada, Mexico and Vietnam, having means and fire power that Italynever had. Comparing the two things and thinking that Italy fought 9 wars (7won) the real inept seems to me the Americans.

这是一个输掉了对加拿大、墨西哥和越南战争的美国人说的，他拥有意大利从未拥有过的手段和火力。
比较这两件事，想一想，意大利打了9场战争(赢了7场)，在我看来，真正无能的似乎是美国人。

Legio XXI Rapax
Gamers Right: i suppose that what you saidis the only clever thing that will come out from your brain, ape

Brendan K 我想你说的话是你脑子里唯一能想到的聪明的东西，你就是弟弟/笑

HAL 9000
My point remains... we lost to Canada 200years ago, when Canada was protected by the dominant world superpower at thetime, the British Empire. As for Mexico, we didn't fully annex it because thenew land would have become slave states, which the North didn't like. We stilltook half of their territory though. So tell me, when did the US loose toMexico? (Not kidding, I actually want to hear) I think America is thedominant world superpower now is more due to its amazing geographicaladvantages, and massive population and economy then the reasons you cite. Butwe're still not as incompetent as Mussolini's Italy. Also, do you understandthat my original comment is a joke, like the ones at the beginning of thevideo?

我的观点是，200年前，我们输给了加拿大，当时加拿大受到当时占统治地位的世界超级大国大英帝国的保护。至于墨西哥，我们没有完全吞并它，因为新土地会变成奴隶州，而北方不喜欢这样。但我们仍然占领了他们一半的领土。告诉我，美国什么时候输掉了对墨战争的?（注：此人的lose总是写成loose，但俩单词意思完全不同，根据上下文应该是lose）
我认为美国现在是世界上占统治地位的超级大国，更多的是因为它惊人的地理优势，以及庞大的人口和经济。但我们仍不像墨索里尼治下的意大利那样无能。
另外，你不知道我最初的评论只是一个笑话，就像视频开头的那些一样吗?

Will Gregory
+Legio XXI Rapax you do realise a massivepercentage of Americans are descendants of Italians

Legio XXI Rapax 你确实意识到了大量美国人都是意大利人的后裔。

Vlad Melis
let him be ignorant,all the comments ofthis comment section are the same,maded by shits of an inferior race,just lookthey're ignorance

让他无知吧，这个评论区所有的评论都是一样的，被一个劣等种族编造出来的狗屁，瞧瞧他们的无知就知道了。

insert username here*
Vlad Melis, learn to take a joke

学会接受笑话。

Blackwolfgoogol (Abdul54cp)1
Vlad Melis >tfw you insult people bycalling them a "lower race" when the germans thought you guys were a"lower race" the the british and french

什么鬼，当德国人认为你们是比不列颠和法兰西更劣等的种族的时候，你居然用“劣等种族”来侮辱别人？

Reyxus
I think he exagerated saying that, butstill no One gives 0 fuck about what the germans and the french thinks aboutsouthern european.

我觉得他有点夸大其词，但并没有人TMD在乎德国人/法国人如何看待南欧人的。

emanueledes7
FUCK GERMANY!!!

草泥马德国佬！

Seize the Memes of Production
And they're holding spaghetti instead ofguns

并且他们拿的是意大利面而不是枪。

Tommaso Mazieri
North Korea best Korea yeah, and you guysholding long Black dicks in your mouths, so, meanwhile we were eatingspaghetti, you were eating something else. I hope you've understood that weitalians got tired of your jokes idiots...

朝鲜是最棒的，没错，你们这群傻子正在舔吊呢，
我们意大利人在吃意大利面条，你们在吃别的东西。
我希望你得明白，我们意大利人已经厌倦了你们的笑话，白痴……

The Truth
Italy did not have an adequate industrialbase in 1940 with which to fight a world war. They could not produce anywherenear what even Britain on her own produced in tanks, planes, guns and ships.Very drastic action was needed as soon as Italy entered the war - 24 hour shiftworking, moving factories underground, compulsory labour for women withoutchildren, etc. And even then this would not have been enough because of thelack of essential raw materials, especially coal, oil and iron ore. Also, Italydid not have sufficient proper production line factories - most of theirproduction happened in small workshops. In summary, Italy lost the war from dayone.

1940年，意大利没有足够的工业基础来打一场世界大战。他们生产的坦克、飞机、枪支和船只，连英国都比不上。
意大利一进入战争就需要采取非常激烈的行动- - 24小时轮班工作、将工厂移到地下、无子女妇女的强制劳动等等。
即便如此，这也不够，因为缺乏必要的原材料，尤其是煤炭、石油和铁矿石。此外，意大利没有足够的生产线工厂——它们的生产大多发生在小型车间。总之，意大利从第一天起就输掉了这场战争。

Sol Invictus
Italy
spent all its money for the Italo-Ethiopian war and for the Spanish Civil War.
Its army would haven't been ready for another war until 1944. However Germany
decided to declare war to Poland without consulting Italy and Italy was forced
to enter the war because of the Pact of Steel. I think it's more humiliating to
have the strongest army in the world and lose against the vietcong.

意大利把所有的钱都花在了意大利-埃塞俄比亚战争和西班牙内战上。直到1944年，它的军队才为另一场战争做好了准备。
然而，德国决定在不征求意大利意见的情况下对波兰宣战，而意大利也因为《钢铁协定》被迫参战。
我认为拥有世界上最强大的军队却输给了越共，这更丢人。

The Chihuahua Strangler
Sol
Invictus Like Russia in Afghanistan?

就像俄国在阿富汗一样？

massman22FTW
The
thing about the Vietcong was they got fucked up WAAAAAY more then the USA we
didn't lost that many compared to there loses. It's just the fact we lost
SOOOOOOO much support for the war at home cause the draft and the hippie
movement. Hard to continue the good fight against Communism and those filthy
reds when nobody wants to fight.

越共在战争中受伤的伤害比美国大多了。
事实在于，我们的这场战争在国内失去了太多的支持，就因为决议案和嬉皮士运动。
在没有人愿意打仗的时候，很难继续同GC主义和那些肮脏的红色份子作斗争。

Greenlandia
When
you fail at conquering Ethiopia.

意大利？当时可是败给了埃塞俄比亚。

Veneto Italiano
Greenlandia
Italy conquered Ethiopia in 1936

意大利于1936年征服了埃塞俄比亚。

Veneto Italiano
Meme
Roots games Uk couldn't conquer Afghanistan, Soviet Union couldn't conquer
Finland and Afghanistan, Vietnam won against China, France and USA, France was
kicked out of Algeri, USA had to retreat from Somalia and Iraq. History is full
of super powers beated by smaller nations, are we going to say that USA, Soviet
Union, China, France and UK also suck?

英国不能征服阿富汗，苏联不能征服芬兰和阿富汗，越南战胜了中国，法国和美国，法国被踢出阿尔及利亚，美国不得不从索马里和伊拉克撤退。历史上充满了被小国击败的超级大国，我们会说美国、苏联、中国、法国和英国也很糟糕吗?

weirdshibainu
How
many gears does an Italian tank have?....7...1 forward and 6 reverse

意大利坦克有多少个轮子？7个，一个朝前，6个朝后。

Doge di Amalfi
That's
the French.

那是法国。

Legio XXI Rapax
So
brainless that is unable even to choice the right stereotypes. Ignorance is
eating your brain dude, but it's ok...is called "natural selection".

没有大脑的人甚至无法选择正确的刻板印象。无知正在吞噬你的大脑，但是没关系……这被称为“自然选择/优胜劣汰”。

Lorenzo Notarianni
What
a FUCKING LAME old, old, old joke. Are you a 90 year old wearing dipers ?

这笑话是由多老了？你是穿尿布的90高龄老头儿？

Iosip Stalin Account #266781689 here on Youtube
golden
foxa yet bulgaria was there ally

然而保加利亚是他们的盟友。

cigarette smoking man
they
also made croatia an ally and drafted many many ukrainians

他们还与克罗地亚结盟，并招募了许多许多乌克兰人。

Tronald Drump
That's
a lie. The Germans had no 'hate' for the Slavs. They they hated Slavic
communists, for being communists, but not for being Slavic.

这是一个谎言。德国人对斯拉夫人没有“仇恨”。他们憎恨斯拉夫GC主义者，但不是因为他们是斯拉夫人。

Kaiser Reinhard von Lohengramm
Tronald
Drump No. They did hate Slavs, and this is well documented even by pro-German
sources, the only time they worked with them was for desperation/convenience
(Bulgaria's land was needed to attack Greece and Yugoslavia, Slav volunteers in
the SS were permitted because of lack of manpower).

不。他们确实讨厌斯拉夫人，即使是亲德的消息来源也清楚地记录了这一点，他们与斯拉夫人一起工作的唯一时间是因为绝望/方便(保加利亚的土地需要用来攻击希腊和南斯拉夫，SS的斯拉夫志愿者因为缺乏人手而被允许)。

当今日本人如何看待二战时期的日本？

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Japanese people of reddit, how is WW2 Japan perceived by modern Japan?

当今日本人如何看待二战时期的日本？

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fucchy
I'm Japanese. I grew up in the states, and visited Japan every 1-2 years. For the past 2 years I've been living in Tokyo because this would probably be the last chance I'll ever get to truly experience what it feels like to live in Japan.

我是日本人。我在美国长大，每一两年去一趟日本。最近2年里，我一直住在东京，因为这可能是我最后一次机会去真正体验住在日本是什么感觉了。

Most people I meet (30s-60s) are generally not too attached to the outcome of the war. Many of them admit that the government was getting too powerful and committing atrocities throughout Asia. Some people think the Japanese are brainwashed into thinking that the atrocities did not happen (history book issue, etc.), but in reality, most Japanese people I meet understand that we killed many innocent people for the wrong reasons. Some people do state that Japan was "pushed into the war" through geopolitical tactics (Yasukuni Shrine stuff), but that is disputed.

多数我遇到的人（30岁到60岁）一般都不太执着于战争的结局。他们中许多人都承认那时的政府变得过于强大，并且在亚洲犯下了暴行。有人说日本人认为暴行没有发生过（比如：历史教科书事件等）是被洗脑了，但是实际上，我认识的大多数日本人都有认识到因为错误的原因我们杀害了许多无辜的人。有些人则表示，日本是被地缘政治策略（靖国神社事件）“推入了战争”，但这是有争议的。

o be honest, no one really cares too much anymore. Post WW2, we experienced the benefits of capitalism and experienced a huge growth in the economy. Western culture seeped into Japan, through Hollywood movies and fashion, and nowadays Western countries are seen as cool/fashionable. The economic bubble finally popped and changed the culture quite a bit financially, but it's been so long that no one really thinks too much about WW2 anymore. On top of that, no one here speaks about political views/opinions very much. It's considered rude since you could potentially offend someone.

老实说，再也没有人真的很在乎二战了。二战后，我们经历了资本主义带来的好处，经历了经济的巨大增长。通过好莱坞电影和流行趋势，西方文化渗透到了日本，现在人们认为西方国家都很酷很时尚。经济泡沫最终出现，并且在经济上很大地改变了日本文化，但是战争已经过去太久了，以至于人们不再频繁地想起二战。再加上，这里没有人太多地谈论政治观点。这被认为是无礼的，因为你有可能冒犯到某个人。

My grandfather was actually hit by the atomic bomb in Nagasaki when he was a child. He told me that, on that day, he was going to play baseball with his buddies. He forgot his bat and glove, so he headed back home to get all his stuff. That's when the bomb went off. He was within 1km of the hypocenter.

我爷爷在他小的时候就经历过长崎的原子弹打击。他告诉我，那天他要和他的伙伴们去打棒球。他忘了拿球棒和手套，所以他回家去拿所有的东西。就在这时，原子弹爆炸了。他在爆炸的1公里范围内。

Apparently, there was a sudden white flash, and he was thrown against the wall of his room. He screamed for his mom, who survived that blast. She crawled towards him and they embraced. He got out with a fractured skull and backbone (I think). Then they headed out of Nagasaki.

好像是突然间出现了一道白色的闪光，然后他被冲击到了房间的墙上。他尖叫着喊他的母亲，他的母亲也在爆炸中幸存了下来。她向他爬过去，他们抱在一起。我爷爷头骨和脊椎骨折，然后和他妈妈离开了长崎。

I always try to get more stories out of him, but all he says is, "I don't really remember. I think we...uhhhh...ate grasshoppers?" He moved back to Nagasaki after a few months to his burnt down home, and his family had to start from scratch. Schools were deserted, and 3/4 of the kids he knew were dead. I don't know much else, but eventually, he got married, had 3 kids (including my dad), and my dad had me. Most of us were born in the Nagasaki Atomic Bomb Hospital.

我总是试图从他那里得到更多的故事，但他所说的都是：“我真的不记得了。我想，嗯。。。。。。我们那时吃的是蝗虫吧？”几个月后，他回到了长崎的家里，他的家人不得不从头开始。学校荒废掉了，他认识的孩子中有四分之三的人都死了。其它的我也不清楚，但是最后，他结婚了，有了3个孩子（包括我爸爸），我爸爸又有了我。我们大多数人都是在长崎原子弹医院出生的。

Surprisingly, my gramps has no beef with America. If anything, he loves American culture. Whenever I visited him as a kid, he was watching Star Trek or a Mariners game. He always wore a Mariners cap and tried to speak basic English because he thought it was cool. I had moved to the states when I was 3, and gramps thought it was super cool. My grandma would call me when I was younger and would ask me to recite the Pledge of Allegiance on voicemail so she could put it on a tape recorder. My parents said she was always listening to it on her deathbed. (She died of cancer when I was in kindergarten)

令人惊讶的是，我爷爷与美国之间并没有什么渊源。如果有的话，那就是他喜欢美国文化。无论我什么时候去看他，他都在看《星际迷航》或者西雅图水手队的棒球比赛。他总是戴着水手队的棒球帽，试图说简单的英语，因为他觉得这样很酷。我3岁的时候搬到了美国，我爷爷觉得这超级酷。我奶奶在我还小的时候会给我打电话，让我在语音信箱上给她留言朗诵美国的《效忠誓词》，这样她就可以把它放在录音机上听。我父母说她临终时还一直在听。（她在我读幼儿园时死于癌症）

注释：美国职业棒球强队有纽约洋基队（New YorkYankees）、波士顿红袜队（Boston RedSox） 和西雅图水手队（Seattle Mariners） 等。曾效力于西雅图水手队的铃木一郎在日本人心中地位很高，他是2001年美国棒球联盟新人王，这一年水手队拿下大联盟史上最多的116胜。2004年铃木一郎以破纪录最多的262支安打拿下安打王。

注释：美国《效忠誓词》 “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

我向美利坚合众国国旗及其所代表的共和国宣誓效忠，这一上帝庇护下的国度不可分割，民众享有自由和公正。

Sorry, that was a ton of information. But I hope it somehow answered the question.

不好意思，说了一大堆。但我希望有回答到这个问题。

elee0228
There's a fascinating Quora post answering this question. Here's a snippet:
Instead of using the word “defeat”, “The End of War” is the title. The bomb and the Soviets broke the treaty of neutrality to invade Japan. With this sequences of sad news, the government held a meeting with the attendance of the Emperor. Opinions divided, but the prime minister obeyed the sacred decision of the emperor to accept the Potsdam Declaration. His Jewel Voice was broadcasted and the Japanese army put down the weapon and the war was ended.

有一个有趣的Quora帖子回答了这个问题。以下是回答片段：
我们并不用“失败”这个词，我们称之为“战争的结束”。原子弹的袭击和苏联对日本的入侵打破了中立条约。伴随着这一系列令人悲伤的消息，日本政府与天皇举行了一次会议。意见有分歧，但是首相服从天皇接受《波茨坦公告》的神圣决定。天皇的玉声被广播放送了出去，日军放下武器，战争结束。

注释：Jewel Voice Broadcast玉音放送，指广播二战时日本天皇宣读的《停战诏书》。由于日本天皇的声音首次向日本普通民众播出，所以天皇的声音就被敬称为“玉音”，“放送”是日语“广播”的意思，故称“玉音放送”。

And in another comment in the post:
The first thing a Japanese person would think of WW2 is not the damage that the Japanese military inflicted, but instead the sufferings and sacrifices the common citizens went through to support their troops, and the realization that they were living a lie when finding out that Japan was not as strong and invincible as they thought they were against the world.

这是另外一个帖子的回答：
日本人说到二战，首先会想到的不是日本军队让别人遭受到的伤害，而是日本普通民众为了支持他们的军队所经历的苦难和牺牲。（译者：让我想起了很多日本动漫电影，比如《萤火虫之墓》等等）还有就是他们意识到自己生活在一个谎言里，发现原来日本并不像他们所认为的那样强到宇宙无敌。

Kytescall
Generally very negatively. It was an oppressive regime. Some of the other commenters are right that a lot of the focus is on how it affected Japan's own people, but to an extent that's inevitable. What you have the most experience of is how something affected you. Especially in the decades following the war, Japan swung all the way in the other direction and became ardently pacifist, and very much against the WW2 era regime.
I think it's less so in recent years as there is a steady rightward shift in politics. But even among right wings who are not ideologically against it, I get the impression that the WW2 regime is at least seen as kinda incompetent.

当今日本人如何看待二战时期的日本？答案通常是非常负面的。那是一个压迫政权。这里其它一些评论说的没错，确实很多日本人关注的是二战如何影响到日本本国的人民，但是在某种程度上这是不可避免的。让你有最强烈感受的是那些影响到你的事情啊。日本，特别是在二战后的几十年里，完全转变成了另一个方向，成为热心的和平主义者，并且极度反对二战时期的政权。
我认为到最近几年才不这样的，因为日本政治逐渐右倾。但即使是在思想意识上不反对战争的右翼分子，他们给我的感觉也是认为二战时期的政权至少是有点不称职的。

hairybrains
I lived in Japan for many years, and worked in an adults only ESL school. This was a regular topic of conversation, and when I look back on all the discussions, I remain amazed at just how little your average Japanese person was taught (or knew) about Japan's role in WW2.

我在日本住了很多年，在一个以英语为第二语言的成人学校里工作。这个是谈话中经常提到的话题，当我回头看所有的讨论时，我一直处于惊讶中，因为对于日本在二战中扮演的角色，普通日本年轻人学到的或者知道的是如此之少。